Feel Like You Don’t Matter? The Mattering Effect With John Miles

Heather Monahan [0:01] Hi, and welcome back. I am so excited for you to meet my guest today. And we have been through it, just trying to get on each other's schedules. He's one of the busiest guys I know, and you're going to see why in a second. John Miles, he's a founder and CEO of PassionStruck, US Naval Academy graduate and former Navy officer. MS and MBA, spent 20 plus years as a Fortune 50 executive, CIO, COO, CDO, I don't even know what that means, CISO, was a private equity partner, which is badass, and served as a four-time CEO before starting PassionStruck. Host of the Passion Struck Podcast, and he just had me on, so you know you gotta listen to that too. Number one alternative health show worldwide, 85 million plus downloads, winner of the Gold Stevia Award and the Gold Davey Award. This guy is killing it. He's author of Passion Struck. Gold Stevie Award for Best Business Book 2025 and 2024. Next Big Idea Club must read his new book, The Mattering Effect, Creating a Life of Meaning and Worth Morehouse Publishing, on sale October 6. We are getting into that today. He's also, in his free time, he's co-founder of The Passion Struck. Speaker Bureau. I mean, John, I don't even know how you have time to be here right now, so thank you for being on the show!

John Miles [1:15] Heather, thank you for that very flattering introduction that you just did. It is such an honor to be on your incredible show, which is just killing it.

Heather Monahan [1:24] Well, you're so sweet to be here. All right, let's dive in because, I mean, you know me and you know I love getting into the backstory because so many people see your level of success and they think of, well, he can do that, but I can't because I have different challenges. than he does, and I know, as you just shared with me, you actually started with a paper route back in the day, much like I did. Can you take us back to what it was like to be the young John?

John Miles [1:53] Yeah, Heather, part of the reason I did that paper out is I started about the same age you started 10 or 11. But a few years prior to that, I was playing a game of tag with. Growing up in outside of Cleveland, and I got pushed from behind and ended up going headfirst through our basement window. And I woke up, I blacked out and I woke up in the ICU with a tube in my head. And as a result of that. I ended up. Um, developing a speech impediment. other speech issues, eyesight issues, chronic headaches, a sensory processing. order, disorder, and all of a sudden, my life changed overnight. I know you love to talk about confidence. Coming out of that, confidence was the one thing I didn't have, and so for me. The paper route was a really important evolution in my life, um, because it, it wasn't something that I leaned into where I needed to gain confidence, and that was one of the things that propelled me into it. I, I wanted to have the confidence. that I could actually carry all those papers, that I could interface with the adult world, and carry on more responsibilities. So it was actually part of my regrowth from that traumatic brain injury that I had.

Heather Monahan [3:15] So, and as John just mentioned, yes, your girl did have a podcast. I'm sorry, a paper route as well. And I believe working at a young age can be such a blessing and set you up for more success moving forward. Okay, so you didn't. Rock a lot of confidence when you were young. How did you go from that to the Naval Academy?

John Miles [3:39] And Heather, this is an interesting story. So I, I. I know you've had mentors that have helped you. I had a mentor initially when I was going through recovering from that brain injury, where I had a speech. therapist who I initially, like, despised going to this speech class because I had to do the walk of shame while everyone else in my elementary school was in English class. I walked right by them, um, in the courtyard. to go see this speech therapist, and I hated it. But after a while, she really, uh, taught me an important lesson. Um, she, at a very young age, taught me that we can either become victims of our environments, which you and I have spent some time talking about. Or we can learn to overcome them. And she told me that it really comes down to the choices that we make, regardless of how old or young we are. And so she started to teach me that if I was going to overcome this, I had to do these micro moments of. Confidence building building to learn the neuroplasticity to to reclaim my my mind and I. Did a lot of that growing up, um, and had reached a point in high school after winning a state championship, um, in cross-country and, uh, being a star athlete in track. to having this college decision that I was faced with, I was, I know you spent time in Michigan, my entire family went to the University of Michigan, grandparents, aunts, uncles, parents. So I thought that's where I was destined to go. I was kind of having a mentoring conversation with a beloved English teacher who everyone just admired. And she said something to me that stopped me in my tracks. She said, John, you are never going to amount to anything. And you you talk about, uh. moments in your life that reshape your trajectory, that moment kind of pushed me. You know, I think there are two walk… two paths and walk… in life we can walk. Uh, there was the Michigan one staring in front of me, and then there was this Naval Academy one, and it really challenged me. If I hadn't overcome enough, I… it really… caused me to put myself, uh, through the most challenging curriculum that I could possibly face at that… at that point, and that's what drove me to the Naval Academy, along with having. you know, both a father and a grandfather who had served before me, so I wanted to keep on the family legacy as well.

Heather Monahan [6:17] So, okay, first of all, let's run it back to when you were young, and you had the brain injury, and you were seeing this speech therapist to help you, and I understand completely what you're saying, because for me, it was going to work study. I felt embarrassed, and I felt less than others. I understand what you're saying, you were going a different place. that the normal kids weren't going to, and it felt bad going in there. What were some of the techniques she taught you to help you, um, build that confidence?

John Miles [6:46] Well, one of and you're gonna love this, because it ties into something you did. One of the things that she really taught me is that. having a positive mindset just doesn't come overnight. It comes through reinforcement. So she started to get me to think about mantras, things that I could tell myself. Um, on a daily basis, repeat. And, and I, I remember as a kid, um, sometimes I'd repeat them 10, 20 times a day, um, that I was enough that I had the capability to. to shape. my world and to make it better, that I… I am not, uh, a victim of my circumstances. You know, they were simple… simpler words at the time, but she really got me to… to… to start repeating. things that would have a positive impact later on in my life, and that is something that I practice to this day. For the first 20 minutes of my day, every day, I take a walk in the dark with my dog, and the first 20-30 minutes. I just allow myself to be in the environment that I'm in, and I say. words of gratitude, I reflect on what went well the day before, how I want to live the day I'm living, and I always say 2 or 3 mantras that I've been saying for well over a decade that allow me to enter my day in the right mental space that I want to be there. And it all goes back to that room. with that speech therapist.

Heather Monahan [8:19] What are the mantras that you say?

John Miles [8:22] Um, I… I basically say today's a glorious day, and I'm gonna live it in excellence. Um, I'm kind of borrowing from… from Robert Sharma, um, with all that I am and all who I can be, um, I deserve. to be known, I deserve to be unique, I deserve to be heard, and I also need to deliver that to other people, so that they are seen, valued, and heard. And then a few other things that I that I bring into it.

Heather Monahan [8:53] I love that. And guys, for everyone listening right now, this is not by chance, but so many of the guests on this show, and not just on this show, but on any show. I'm thinking of our friend John Gordon. He does the gratitude walk, right?

John Miles [9:02] Thank you. Same thing, yes.

Heather Monahan [9:10] These are very successful people repeat the same habits. It is not by chance, it's by design. So start doing these things. Bring gratitude into your life. Get out and take a walk. Gosh, I've recently realized when I spent a couple of days in the house too long that just not taking steps outdoors can affect you negatively. There is science behind all this stuff, guys. Please take a page out of John's playbook. It will work for you. OK, John, so when you talked about not going to Michigan, which is a huge deal when your entire family did it, so many — I have so many friends. I know so many people. And I've worked with so many people. who say, I went this route because my family had done it. I became a doctor because I became a lawyer because, but now I'm questioning everything. How were you able to find yourself in that situation and say, I'm not just going to take this route because everybody else did it. I'm going to go a different route that's actually going to be harder.

John Miles [10:12] And you want to know who one of the most disappointed people in me was, was actually my dad. He wanted me to go to Michigan so bad that when I didn't go. he was extremely disappointed, but disappointed for another reason. He had served in the Marine Corps Force Recon, and when he went. to Cambodia, uh, just before, uh, the Vietnam War, um, only 2 members of his platoon came back, so I think part of it was he also realized the sacrifice, um, that I might be signing myself up for that I didn't realize the ramifications for. as I was signing the paperwork and raising my hand. So I think part of it was a protective mechanism, and part of it was he wanted me to be the maize and blue. But I think that that was probably one of the most difficult decisions, because I thought. he was going to be so proud of me for making this decision. And in what I got was the exact opposite, which at the time, kind of stopped me in my tracks.

Heather Monahan [11:12] How did you keep moving forward?

John Miles [11:16] Well, I just realized that. I had always had such a huge fascination with leadership, and had tried every opportunity I could, whether that was being a captain on my team, and I know you played softball. taking on leadership roles when I worked in grocery, even doing the paper out, that I knew leadership was a strong calling for me. And I just thought about it, like, what is going to be better for teaching leadership? Is it going to the university? University of Michigan, or an academy that that's what they teach you is how to be a leader. And then at 21, 22 years old, you know, you're, you're out there in the real world, dealing with real world issues, when you come out of a service academy. So. I just thought it was long-term the better track for me, and it was really going to challenge me to be the best version of who a young John could possibly be.

Heather Monahan [12:13] What were some of the leadership principles they instilled in you that you're still utilizing to this day?

John Miles [12:20] Man, well, I think… One of them is… is just the group of people that you're surrounded by. What I realized. Very soon is that coming out of high school. I was the big person on campus. I thought I knew everything. I had gotten great grades, I had finished close to the top of my class. And what I realized going to the Academy was that I, I was really average at best. I, it's, I've talked to NFL players who, you know, come out being an All-American in college and then they go to the combine and go to the NFL team and they realize. like, they are marginal at best. That's kind of how I felt. And, you know, I have classmates. Um, who went on to become astronauts. Um, I have one now who's… who's leading the entire war effort against Iran. He's a four-star. I have another one who was the second youngest governor in the… in the history of the United States, governor of Missouri, so that… that's the caliber of people I was with. But they also challenged me because of that caliber to be so much more than I could have been. had they not been there. And that support structure, I'm actually going back there tomorrow, is something that I wouldn't trade for the world, because I know I can go to my classmates. In in any moment, um, and they'll be there for me.

Heather Monahan [13:49] That's an incredible group to be running with. And I'm so glad that you had that opportunity, obviously, to surround yourself with people who could be even running at a faster pace than you are. So many people want to be the big fish. in the small pond, and think that's the answer, what would you say to them to help them understand? Because I even remember, for me, just being in the media business. It's what I… oftentimes, we… change is scary, and we want to be in the environment we know, and what if I make a leap to do something else? And I'm not. at the head? What if I'm not the biggest? That fear held me back for a long time. How do you speak to people so that they understand making that leap and putting themselves in that other situation is actually the answer for them?

John Miles [14:34] Yeah, I'm going to simplify this. We started this whole conversation about me being this young kid. Well, let's think about all of us. At some point or another, we've all been at that kid at recess. waiting to be picked for whatever team it was. Could be a kickball team. When I was growing up, we loved to play football at recess. When you're picked. That's belonging. You have a place on the team, if we're going to correlate this to my book. But I think what people don't understand is this whole concept of mattering. Mattering is much deeper. And research describes mattering as having two different sides feeling valued and adding value. And to answer your question, I think. You can be on a team, whether that's that kickball team or being in a work environment, and still wonder, would anyone really notice if I weren't here? And I think that's where we're a lot of leaders. lose and confuse this difference between belonging and mattering. Giving someone a seat in a room isn't the same as making them feel valued. or giving them the opportunity to, you know, or giving them the opportunity to make a meaningful contribution. So. I think it's important for people to understand that belonging means I have a place here, mattering is I'm valued here. And what I bring can make a difference. So I think when you enter rooms like that, that's what you have to think about. How do you put yourself in a position where you're valued here? And you understand that the difference that you're making, regardless of what level it is, can really make a difference, because I think that's what gives you the confidence to then grow from there.

Heather Monahan [16:20] How do you explain it to people? Because when you explain that, and thank you for sharing that, because it's a different way of looking at things than I typically do. I believe sometimes people might say, they're not letting me matter. Versus I matter by the value I bring. How do you differentiate that? Or how can you help somebody with that challenge?

John Miles [16:43] Well, I mean, I think it's an interesting thing, because the honest answer is, you can feel connected and still feel insignificant. Right? So you can be in that environment. Feeling like you're connecting with others, feeling like you're contributing, and still feeling insignificant. The way I would put it is when I was at Lowe's. I inherited this group, I often talk about this on my show, where I was brought in because Lowe's had just undergone the largest. It wasn't ethical at all. The largest hacking incident in retail history. A couple people had been able to gain access to an access point, got all the way to the company's general ledger, if you can believe it. And I thought, well, that's going to be the biggest thing I've got to solve. Well, I had a huge shock when the chief of human resources brought me into our office on the first week and said we just. conducted the first employee engagement survey in company history, and John, you have inherited the most disengaged group out of 350,000 employees. And what I learned. going into this is that people can be indispensable and still feel insignificant. And that's exactly what had happened with this group. They all had very important roles. But no one was making them feel significant, and they had no idea in how the role that they were performing was making a difference to a customer in the store, or to increasing shareholder value, or other of the key metrics of the company. So I think that's a good way for people to see this is. Is there's a big difference between. knowing you matter, and feeling you matter. And I think that's something that leaders need to be… do a better job. is making people feel both. One, that they feel significant. And then helping them understand why they feel significant.

Heather Monahan [18:39] Can you walk us through some of the changes that you implemented to turn that around?

John Miles [18:44] Yeah, um… So, one of the most important ones is something that I call a line of sight. So… I went around. And first, I tried to interview… well, I went and interviewed all of… the customers of our organization, and then I talk to all my peers. Time to get from their perspective. Why was this organization performing so low? But then the important. Other step I took… is… I showed up, and I started talking to people in break rooms, in the command centers, in the data centers, and I would get up at 2 o'clock in the morning, because some of the shifts. We're 24 by 7, and they didn't work a day shift. So, I, I, one, signaled to all of them that they mattered to me, and that I was willing myself to put in the effort to meet them. The second thing is, is I started to learn about them. Like, what were their passions? Did they want to stay in this role? Did they want something more? What was happening outside of them? Did they have a member who might have been sick in their family? Did they want to go on to further their education? Did they have kids? And what were their kids interested in? So I made them see that I was concerned about them bigger than just the role that they were doing. But then I also tried to understand what were the barriers that they were feeling. And what I realized was that. they were part of an environment where no one had given them the ability to have a voice. So it was really top-down, like I was used to it from the military. but they weren't allowed to influence from the bottom up. And so, when I started to go to a manager in the command center. And it started out with them, what should I do, John? And I started to say, I can't be with you at 3 o'clock in the morning every single day. You've got to analyze the situation and what I want. from you as a leader, start telling me what changes, based on where this organization needs to go, do you think we need to start making? And it kind of gets into that Ted lasso. You know, when Ted is initially. Talking to the the kit kit person. You know, you need to start taking some of the ideas from the lowest people in the organization and implementing them so that they see that you're gonna take their ideas and put them into practice. Because once you start doing that, they believe in you more. And then as often as I possibly could, I got in front of them and I talked to them about the difference that they were making, the changes that we were doing, the impact that they were making. And I started telling them stories. Like the fact that you were able to catch this issue on Lowes.com enabled us to fulfill orders for a thousand people who would not have been able to receive that order had it not been for you. And I talked about their grandmother visiting the store, and family members, and this and that, and I related it so that they could see the actual impact that they were making, and. Um, that was the start of it, and then that allowed me to implement a lot of the strategic initiatives that we wanted to, because they believed in me. And then from there, 18 months later to 20 months later, we went from the lowest. on the engagement survey to the second highest in the entire company.

Heather Monahan [22:15] How long did it take you to build that trust with them?

John Miles [22:20] I… I think I… man, the… the thing is, is that the trust seems like it happens so slowly, but it… it really happened much quicker than… than I even expected. that initial getting the signal back took about 6 months. You know, the first weeks were really hard because they kind of look at you and think you're just the next person that the company's bringing in. But when they… when you start sending the signals back to people that they… that they matter, that they're valued, and that they could say something to you, even very critical, you know, I would let… I had an open-door policy, and it was a true open-door policy. I would let people come in and tell me if I screwed up, or give me advice if I said something that they didn't agree with. And when they saw. that not only would I listen, but I would get in front of, you know, hundreds of people and tell them that, uh, you know, Giles came into my office the other day. and told me this fact about what I'm doing, and he was completely right, and so I'm not going to do that anymore. It showed them that… that I wasn't this person on their high horse. I… I was actually human like they were, and it really got them to believe in me. And then they also saw me and this is something I learned from one of my favorite military leaders. That, um, I would defend them, even if sometimes they were wrong, it didn't matter. If I were talking to my boss, one of my peers, man, I had their backs, and I would defend them to the end of the day. That might meant. I would close the door on them and say, what the hell were you thinking? Don't ever do this again. But out in public, they knew I had their back, and so it made them have the confidence. That even if they screwed up, that someone believed in them and would defend them.

Heather Monahan [24:15] I love that, and that's such a sign of a great leader. Okay, so you brought up something interesting that I want to address. I actually currently am coaching a COO of a $6 billion organization, thousands of employees, and like you, he prides himself on having an open door. However, John. One of the things that we've been talking a lot about and working on is he's so accessible, his calendar gets away from him, and he's not able to manage things that are really important, bigger objectives, huge things that need to be handled. How can you find a balance of having that open door, because you want people to know you're there to listen.

John Miles [24:51] Yeah, ma'am.

Heather Monahan [24:52] but still being able to deliver on the work that you have.

John Miles [24:55] Well, there are two things that have really guided me for years. One of them is Stephen Covey's principle of keeping the main thing the main thing. the main thing in my life is God, you know, so ultimately, that is the main thing, but when it comes to a work environment. I use it in conjunction with the Eisenhower Quadrant, so I am very much. Eisenhower quadrant for people who aren't familiar with it is, is he had 2 accesses, important versus urgent. And so you and then you have to prioritize against them. So is what's happening to you. both important and urgent. If it's not, it goes into a lower quadrant, so… What I… what I set my calendar up to do is I put it in blocks where I needed to keep the main thing the main thing, and I put those blocks first thing in my day. And I put blocks for time that people could do office hours with me later in the day. where my energy was a little bit, um, lower, where I had gotten the most important things I needed to get done during the day. So I freed up my schedule to allow that to happen, but it also… I would change it if I would get some kind of pre-word on why the person was coming to talk to me, which often, before someone shows up, you get it anonymously, or, you know, someone will tell you, hey, I think Jim's gonna, or Heather's gonna come and talk to you. So, that also, um, gives you an inkling of what they're gonna talk about and its importance. But if you… if you don't set that up, you do put yourself in a situation where you're gonna have a lot of people talking to you about things that, uh. While they may be important, aren't aren't necessarily the most important thing that you need to be focused on. And they're not the most urgent thing that you need to be focused on. So that's what I used as, as a way to manage my time throughout my career.

Heather Monahan [26:59] I love that strategy, and I was not familiar with it, so thank you for explaining it. I love learning something new. Okay, so I want to get into your new book, The Mattering Effect, and for someone who's had such a disciplined career, military background, massive businesses in corporate America, it seems almost a little. off-brand to be writing The Mattering Effect. Why did you go this route instead of doing, I don't know, a next how to improve company culture or drive bottom line results? What was that change for you to focus so much on mattering?

John Miles [27:38] Heather, I know you're a spiritual person. And as you can tell, I am too. Many of our friends, familiar friends are as well. I grew up Catholic, and when I was in my early to mid-30s, I took this course at a Methodist church called Discipleship One, and it is one of the most challenging courses I've ever taken. It's 36 weeks long, we met with our pastor. twice a week for 3-4 hours in the evening, and it was brutal, and we went through the entire Bible in 36 weeks in detail. Well, during that, uh, time, I started to get this mission, um, that the subliminal message at first, and then it got louder. that the path that I was on, doing all the wonderful things I was in corporate America, was not the path that was… I was destined to do in God's eye. And, uh, the words I was given is that, uh, you were supposed to help the lonely, broken, disengaged, battered, helpless, hopeless of the world. And I have to tell you, Heather, I had no idea what to do with this. At the time, you know, I'm leading application development and you asked what a CDO is, chief data officer. They now call it the chief data and AI officer. So, I'm doing those types of things. I have no idea what I'm supposed to do to help someone who's lonely or helpless or hopeless. But it started to get me to ask questions. And the question I came up with was. all these things seem to be so far removed from one each other. What does loneliness and being burned out and employee disengagement have to do with one another? And so I started asking the harder question. You know, what is sitting underneath all of this? And I recently was having a conversation with a social scientist, Arthur Brooks, of your audience. is familiar with them, and he told me that the happiest people feel needed, not merely successful. Meaning. Achievement can satisfy ambition while doing remarkably little to satisfy our own need for significance. And I started to wonder, like, I'm big on this whole idea that's a John Gordon. thing, that you have to find the one-word problem that you're called to solve. And so, I'm like, there has to be a one-word problem. that's driving all these different things. And I discovered that it's unmattering. And I've added systemic unmattering. But what I discovered is that all of these things that. are these epidemics that are plaguing so many of us are rooted, they're really symptoms of something larger, and that's this unmattering. And what I found is. that so many of us are living in what I call the mattering gap, which is the distance between. what you're giving to the world, and the degree to which you feel valued. And when you live inside that gap. too long that you start paying the mattering tax. Meaning, you're trying to close that gap, but what you feel instead is anxiety, exhaustion, overwork, self-editing, loneliness, because you're not connecting in the way. that you feel like you should, that come from constantly trying to prove you deserve, you matter. And so, all of that connects to something larger, which is what I call the mattering market. We've created environments, whether that's our family environment, our school environments, our work environments, the communities that we're in, even consumerism. that are very good at asking people to add value while giving them very little evidence that they themselves are valued. And that… to me, was the foundation of doing all the work that I'm doing, because it plays a direct role in creating a culture where people feel like they matter at work, at joining a community. where they feel like they belong, etc. So, so the gap is what you feel. The tax is what you spend your time trying to compensate for it.

Heather Monahan [31:57] John, while you're explaining that, what pops into my head is this. When I was back in corporate America, chief revenue officer, and on the outside, it looked like this girl's killing it. She's making a lot of money. She's getting all these accolades. But I remember as a single mother and I had a little boy, I would volunteer for a charity at nights and on the weekends because I didn't feel like I was getting that sense of significance that you're talking about right now. I was making rich people richer with our shareholders, and that was great, and I was proud of the job I did, but I wanted to have more of a purpose somehow. Then, cut to now, as my son just left to go to college, now I'm having the same kind of reinvention. moment, again, where do I really matter, and am I fulfilling a purpose? Because one of the things that I focused on so much, so, you know, has gone to a different phase. What are some of the advice and or what are the frameworks from the book that you work with people going through these moments where they are disconnected or not feeling like they matter?

John Miles [33:04] Yeah, so the first thing is, is I… I spend a short period of time in the whole book on outlining the problem, because I think more people… I think a lot of… a lot of people, um, now are kind of starting to understand what the problem is. What I haven't seen anyone really do is give. the solution to it. So, the first three chapters really outline how did we get here. The rest of the book goes into something that I call the Matter Framework, and the Matter Framework. consists of. 6 conditions and I I spent. really a decade studying this, so I've talked to everyone from the Dalai Lama, to Jon Kabat-Zinn, to Nobel Prize winners, to professional athletes. I tried to get. a a 4. circumference of what was happening to come up with this answer. And what I found was that there are these 6 conditions that happen to match the word matter. that when they're there, we feel valued and we receive value, and when they're not there, we lose it. So, M stands for meaning, A is autonomy. T is time. The other T is trust. E is energy, and R is reciprocity. So let me just go through this and how they… they build on each other. Meaning is, is my life really connected to something that matters to me? Autonomy, and this really plays an important role, especially with the advent of AI. Do I feel like I have authorship over my life, or do I feel conditional in it? where other people are driving my life. Trust really gets into the work of Amy Edmondson and psychological safety. Can I myself be honest and unfinished? Can I live my life as I actually am? Or do I feel like I have to pretend? In the rooms that I'm showing up in. Time really gets into, do I have enough unhurried space? Kind of gets back to that. importance urgent matrix to actually experience my life and the relationships that matter to me. Energy gets into this concept of return on energy. Is my life replenishing me, or only extracting from me? And then reciprocity, I like to get people to think of a metaphor of a seesaw. Does care flow both ways on that seesaw, or is it rising in one direction and the other is not receiving it? So. So, I introduced the Matter framework, and then I then go into, how do you build this back first. using yourself as as the compass, because I think mattering is is. really the foundation, our human operating system, and then once you do it for yourself personally, then how do you build it back into your family situations? How do you build it back into your intimate relationships or your relationships with friends, into your work environments and into your community?

Heather Monahan [36:17] Are there elements of the framework that you see universally across these thousands of interviews that you've done and all of this research? Is there one thing that matters more than the other, or is it a function of how they work together?

John Miles [36:30] It's really a function of how they work together. But there, there is an important. point. Like, if you don't have meaning. If you don't understand what matters most, then it's going to be very difficult to have autonomy over. you know, figuring out how to move that if you don't… if you don't have meaning in your life. So there is an element to them being united, but there are certain components of this that you just have to have, or the rest of it's going to topple down.

Heather Monahan [37:03] Don't you think that so many people, I mean, I guess I'll probably even put my younger self in this base camp. I would have never even picked my head up long enough to think about finding meaning. I was just trying to find my next paycheck, get through that next day, find a way to get back in a routine that made sense and find some happiness.

John Miles [37:22] Yes.

Heather Monahan [37:23] So often people are in… when you're in the rut, when you're in it, it's hard to pick your head up and say, I need to be smart about this and take a look at bigger things.

John Miles [37:32] Yeah, I talked earlier about the questions that I asked myself. And I think there are some important ones that your audience needs to ask. Like, in the book, I define something that I call the Mattering Needs Pyramid, and it has 4 different levels, but they all revolve around different questions that I think are fundamental to any of us. The first question which really gets to the meaning element is, who am I? The second question is, where do I fit? What do I want now and how do I want to feel that come back to me? And then, what happens when my old identity no longer fits, based on where my life is? And so… What I'm really trying to help people understand is why achievement doesn't answer those questions. And why we need to come back to ourself and that human operating system. to really understand that internal belief that you're not going to matter to someone else. and feel it come back to you if you don't feel like you matter to yourself. And that's where this starts and ends, is in personal mattering. There can be no relational mattering. and no emotional mattering until personal mattering is felt. And I think for so many of us, myself included. That's where it started for me, because… When God gave me that mission. The hardest thing that I had to come to the realization was that I was one of the very people that he was asking to serve. I myself was broken. I myself had become burned out. At one point, I was so numb. That it took my son, who was probably 8 or 9 years old at the time. to say to me, Dad, why do you never laugh anymore? To really come to the realization the wake up call. that, um, at the time I was at Dell, and I would come off these 100-hour weeks. you know, half of which was spent overseas, um, dealing with issues, and I'd walk into that conference room. and as I… I told you when you and I were… when I was interviewing you, I had this president. who just made my life miserable. So I was doing all this work. And I felt half the time, like, what mattered more, the chair that I'm sitting in, or me? And then to have my son… You know who I cared the most for tell me. Dad, you're not even showing up in the house, like, where are you? Like, I think that is happening to so many people, and it was a huge wake-up call for me, so it really showed me that this is something that is huge, that is plaguing, I think, hundreds of millions of people, and has become one of the largest epidemics. That is plaguing humanity, regardless of where you may be sitting today listening to this.

Heather Monahan [40:30] So for people listening right now, who did you write the book for? Because I'm seeing it right now as so many versions of myself along my own life, different versions of myself, different challenges, different moments of burnout, whether it could be you're going through divorce and questioning things, whether you're in a job that isn't bringing you joy, whether you're not creating time for things that truly matter to you. Your relationship with God, your children, your health, yourself. Who did you really write this book for?

John Miles [41:03] I'm glad you asked that. So one of these is… The person who feels like. success is is the thing that is finally going to bring them fulfillment, because I can guarantee you it never will. And. One of these is the burned out people. This could be the doctor who keeps giving and giving and giving and never gets anything in return. But this is also for the spouse who. gives to their children, gives to the family, gives to the husband. Asked for very little in return, but is not getting that reciprocity back to them. It's also for, you know, the older generation who, you know, I write an example where, you know, a person is coming up to a person that I interviewed in a crosswalk. And she's in her late 70s, and she feels like an object that people. barely see because of where she is in her life state. And so she feels very lonely because. they don't see the previous 70 years in the life. All they're seeing is this obstacle that needs to be avoided, not the person who they were. And it's for the youngsters today who are spending so much time, you know, with these filters and other things that social media is telling them that they have to use because they're not enough. And they feel like they have to be perfect and they're swimming around like ducks. So. so rampant with so much anxiety underneath the water, feeling that they have to be a different person to survive in the world today. So it's for all of those people And that's why I I tell. If people to their blue in the face, this impacts so many people in so many different roles. It's not just for the high achievers.

Heather Monahan [42:59] John, I'm so grateful you wrote this book, did all of the due diligence and research that you did to bring this forward with such an incredible framework. How do people find the book and where can they get it?

John Miles [43:11] It is available everywhere for pre-order. The most simple place to go is matteringeffect.com, or you can go to my podcast website, PassionStruck. And right at the top of the header, it has places that you can pre-order.

Heather Monahan [43:31] John, thank you so much for writing this book. Guys, get this book. As he just described, this book is for everybody. No matter where you are in your life, you matter. Get The Mattering Effect. John has spent years creating this for you, and let it change your life because you matter. And John, you matter to us so much. Thank you so much for being here today.

John Miles [43:51] Heather, it was one of the biggest honors I've had in a long time coming on your show. So thank you so much for having me.

Heather Monahan [43:57] Well, that means the world to me. Get The Mattering Effect by John Miles, and we will link it in the show notes for you. You can get a pre-order copy right now, one week before it comes out, October 6th. Head over, get your copy, you matter. Until next week, keep creating your confidence, you know I will be.

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors.